Possession in U5

[lp]

seem to find any information on this in the usual guides, so I thought
I'd ask the group. In Ultima 5, certain monsters (daemons and gazers?)
have the power to "possess" characters. So what are you supposed to do?
Can characters be dispossessed somehow? Do you have to just kill them?

I'm still trying to get that lousy balloon to land on Serpent's Spine
in U4, btw. :-(

Confused Fluffy Dragon (still unofficial)

[Spalls Hurgenson]

Post by lp
seem to find any information on this in the usual guides, so I thought
I'd ask the group. In Ultima 5, certain monsters (daemons and gazers?)
have the power to "possess" characters. So what are you supposed to do?
Can characters be dispossessed somehow? Do you have to just kill them?

It's been an age since I played U5 (I try to go back, but a few of
those endless combat sequences and I just can't keep going), but I
think the "solution" was just to re-possess them back with a spell (U5
did have a charm spell, right?).

But, IIRC, what I usually did was just leave the combat arena with my
nonpossessed characters, and then wait for the possession to expire.
The victim would then stagger a few steps towards the exit before
getting soul-snatched again. I'd wait for his release, make another
couple of steps, get possessed, repeat until escape.

The *real* solution, of course, is not to get possessed at all; stay
away from dangerous dungeons until you get the LB's crown, which will
protect you from possession (not to mention other magics). Getting the
crown should be one of your first goals in the game :)

[lp]

I've got the crown, and my character is using it . . . thanks for the
help. "Charm", huh? I'll try it.

[Tristan Miller]

Greetings.

Post by lp
seem to find any information on this in the usual guides, so I thought
I'd ask the group. In Ultima 5, certain monsters (daemons and gazers?)
have the power to "possess" characters. So what are you supposed to do?
Can characters be dispossessed somehow? Do you have to just kill them?

There are several solutions:

1) Avoid getting possessed in the first place by using an Amulet of Turning
or the Crown of Lord British.

2) Kill the possessed character.

3) Have everyone but the possessed character flee the battle.

4) Cast Charm on the possessed character.

5) Cast Sleep or Poison on the possessed character (IIRC, the slept, dead,
poisoned, and possessed states are mutually exclusive).

Post by lp
I'm still trying to get that lousy balloon to land on Serpent's Spine
in U4, btw. :-(

There is a magic spell which allows you to control the wind. Using this
will speed things up considerably. ;)

Regards,
Tristan

[lp]

Post by Tristan Miller
Greetings.

Post by lp
seem to find any information on this in the usual guides, so I thought
I'd ask the group. In Ultima 5, certain monsters (daemons and gazers?)
have the power to "possess" characters. So what are you supposed to do?
Can characters be dispossessed somehow? Do you have to just kill them?

1) Avoid getting possessed in the first place by using an Amulet of Turning
or the Crown of Lord British.
2) Kill the possessed character.
3) Have everyone but the possessed character flee the battle.
4) Cast Charm on the possessed character.
5) Cast Sleep or Poison on the possessed character (IIRC, the slept, dead,
poisoned, and possessed states are mutually exclusive).

Thank you. I'd been wearing the crown, but the game "takes it off"
after a while.

I'm now dungeon-hopping, and sometimes, after you've killed everything
in a room, and leave it, you get the message "Battle is lost!" Does
anyone know why this happens? I can understand in the cases where you
run away, or where there are ghosts and you don't want to hang around
for half an hour waiting for them to reappear. (For example, I'm in
Level 8 of Destard, and I've killed three daemons, but when I leave the
room, it gives me that message. And one of the rooms on Level 7 did it,
too.)

Fluffy the Confused Dragon

[Spalls Hurgenson]

Post by lp
I'm now dungeon-hopping, and sometimes, after you've killed everything
in a room, and leave it, you get the message "Battle is lost!" Does
anyone know why this happens? I can understand in the cases where you
run away, or where there are ghosts and you don't want to hang around
for half an hour waiting for them to reappear. (For example, I'm in
Level 8 of Destard, and I've killed three daemons, but when I leave the
room, it gives me that message. And one of the rooms on Level 7 did it,
too.)

It does this because you retreated from the battlefield while there
were still monsters around to be killed. Unfortunately, these monsters
are not always that obvious; usually they are beasties in the black
areas behind the walls. You need to find the secret trigger (push the
appropriate wall/walls) that unleashes them on you so you can kill
them. Sometimes they are teleporting monsters (like demons) and the
designers expected them to warp out into the main battle-area, except
for whatever reason (bug, crown) they just don't. And sometimes they
are just invisible.

In most cases, you can kill the hidden monsters with a halberd or a
morning-star (which can reach over the walls into the black area
beyond), but for some rooms you'll need to find the secret triggers.

(I haven't played U5 in years and years, and haven't had the patience
to reach the dungeons in over a decade... it amazes me that I can
remember this stuff)

[Tristan Miller]

Greetings.

Post by Spalls Hurgenson

Post by lp
I'm now dungeon-hopping, and sometimes, after you've killed everything
in a room, and leave it, you get the message "Battle is lost!" Does
anyone know why this happens? I can understand in the cases where you
run away, or where there are ghosts and you don't want to hang around
for half an hour waiting for them to reappear. (For example, I'm in
Level 8 of Destard, and I've killed three daemons, but when I leave the
room, it gives me that message. And one of the rooms on Level 7 did it,
too.)

It does this because you retreated from the battlefield while there
were still monsters around to be killed. Unfortunately, these monsters
are not always that obvious; usually they are beasties in the black
areas behind the walls. You need to find the secret trigger (push the
appropriate wall/walls) that unleashes them on you so you can kill
them. Sometimes they are teleporting monsters (like demons) and the
designers expected them to warp out into the main battle-area, except
for whatever reason (bug, crown) they just don't. And sometimes they
are just invisible.
In most cases, you can kill the hidden monsters with a halberd or a
morning-star (which can reach over the walls into the black area
beyond), but for some rooms you'll need to find the secret triggers.

Actually, many such dungeon rooms do not have any secret triggers. The
monsters hiding behind the walls are ghosts and wisps, which can pass
through walls and teleport, respectively, provided that you're not
negating magic. Under normal conditions, then, no triggers are necessary
to release the monsters; they'll come out on their own. But when you're
wearing the crown, they're stuck behind the walls and you need to either
remove the crown (thus risking combat and possession) or use a polearm to
kill them.

Regards,
Tristan

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:48:06 +0100, Tristan Miller

Post by Tristan Miller
Greetings.

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
Sometimes they are teleporting monsters (like demons) and the
designers expected them to warp out into the main battle-area, except
for whatever reason (bug, crown) they just don't. And sometimes they
are just invisible.
In most cases, you can kill the hidden monsters with a halberd or a
morning-star (which can reach over the walls into the black area
beyond), but for some rooms you'll need to find the secret triggers.

Actually, many such dungeon rooms do not have any secret triggers. The
monsters hiding behind the walls are ghosts and wisps, which can pass
through walls and teleport, respectively, provided that you're not
negating magic.

I believe I said that. Okay, I used the word "teleport", but the gist
was the same.


The gist, man, the gist! ;-)

[lp]

Mercy Buckets again, guys! I'll do that.

[Tristan Miller]

Greetings.

Post by lp

Post by Tristan Miller

Post by lp
seem to find any information on this in the usual guides, so I thought
I'd ask the group. In Ultima 5, certain monsters (daemons and gazers?)
have the power to "possess" characters. So what are you supposed to
do? Can characters be dispossessed somehow? Do you have to just kill
them?

1) Avoid getting possessed in the first place by using an Amulet of
Turning or the Crown of Lord British.

Thank you. I'd been wearing the crown, but the game "takes it off"
after a while.

It doesn't do that nondeterministically. IIRC the crown is taken off
whenever you hole up to camp, so make sure you replace it when you wake
up. I don't think there is any other conditions under which the game
removes your crown.

Regards,
Tristan

[Amarande]

Post by Tristan Miller
It doesn't do that nondeterministically. IIRC the crown is taken off
whenever you hole up to camp, so make sure you replace it when you wake
up. I don't think there is any other conditions under which the game
removes your crown.

Equipping the Amulet of Lord British is also mutually exclusive with the
Crown.

I believe there were a couple of spells, also, that would override the
Crown when you used them, and the Crown would not be automatically put
back on after they expired ... unfortunately I can't remember which they
are.


Also -

* Casting the 'Fear' spell will also often help with the wisp/ghost
situation; most of the time the hidden wisp spaces are at the very edge
of the combat zone, which means that an afraid monster will immediately
be able to flee.

(I should note further that the Fear spell is almost insane in this
game; in fact, it is the single strongest damage spell in the game, even
if it cannot outright kill anything ...)

* 'Battle is lost' has only one significance in U5 (unlike U4, where it
appears this messed up your Valor virtue). It doesn't cost any Karma,
and doesn't appear to cost anything in general. Rather, the only thing
it affects is the respawning of monsters in the room.

If you get 'Battle is lost' and then return to the same dungeon room
afterwards, all enemies that the room started with will be back.
However, if you get 'Victory' and then return to the room, the room will
stay empty. This means that it is very often actually to your
*advantage* to 'lose' dungeon room battles - particularly if the
monsters that room contains are ones that are worth killing repeatedly
(Dragons particularly come to mind, as IIRC they're worth the most EXP
that a single kill can give you in U5, namely 25 - there are a few
others that give this, but other than Shadowlords, I can't recall
offhand - and dragons also drop high grade treasure chests each time you
kill them. Having reliable dragons around can be a Good Thing.).

[Tristan Miller]

Greetings.

Post by Amarande
If you get 'Battle is lost' and then return to the same dungeon room
afterwards, all enemies that the room started with will be back.
However, if you get 'Victory' and then return to the room, the room will
stay empty. This means that it is very often actually to your
*advantage* to 'lose' dungeon room battles - particularly if the
monsters that room contains are ones that are worth killing repeatedly
(Dragons particularly come to mind, as IIRC they're worth the most EXP
that a single kill can give you in U5

Yes. This goes especially for those rooms where the dragons are trapped
behind pillars or other obstacles. As long as you position your
characters correctly, they can't hurt you, but you can easily take them
out with a halberd or morning star.

Post by Amarande
, namely 25 - there are a few
others that give this, but other than Shadowlords, I can't recall
offhand - and dragons also drop high grade treasure chests each time you
kill them. Having reliable dragons around can be a Good Thing.).

Does anyone know how many experience points a Shadowlord is worth? (I
don't mean actually killing them with a shard, of course, but just
defeating them in combat.)

Regards,
Tristan

[Michael Cecil]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:21:16 +0100, Tristan Miller

Post by Tristan Miller
Greetings.

Post by Amarande
If you get 'Battle is lost' and then return to the same dungeon room
afterwards, all enemies that the room started with will be back.
However, if you get 'Victory' and then return to the room, the room will
stay empty. This means that it is very often actually to your
*advantage* to 'lose' dungeon room battles - particularly if the
monsters that room contains are ones that are worth killing repeatedly
(Dragons particularly come to mind, as IIRC they're worth the most EXP
that a single kill can give you in U5

Yes. This goes especially for those rooms where the dragons are trapped
behind pillars or other obstacles. As long as you position your
characters correctly, they can't hurt you, but you can easily take them
out with a halberd or morning star.

Post by Amarande
, namely 25 - there are a few
others that give this, but other than Shadowlords, I can't recall
offhand - and dragons also drop high grade treasure chests each time you
kill them. Having reliable dragons around can be a Good Thing.).

Does anyone know how many experience points a Shadowlord is worth? (I
don't mean actually killing them with a shard, of course, but just
defeating them in combat.)

If you get all three and mix them in a pot with some glue, you get one
Guardian.

[Amarande]

Post by Tristan Miller
Does anyone know how many experience points a Shadowlord is worth? (I
don't mean actually killing them with a shard, of course, but just
defeating them in combat.)

25, like dragons. They're actually not that hard to kill if you have the
Crown and some magic axes ... I wonder if anything ill would come of
just parking myself in front of one of the Principle Flames and
continually yelling for a shadowlord :)

As I said, I believe a couple other monsters are worth 25 also, but I
can't remember which ones these are offhand (Sandtraps or Daemons maybe?
But I seem to recall Daemons were actually 19, and I can't remember
Sandtraps' exp off the top of my head ...).

[Michael Cecil]

Post by Amarande

Post by Tristan Miller
Does anyone know how many experience points a Shadowlord is worth? (I
don't mean actually killing them with a shard, of course, but just
defeating them in combat.)

25, like dragons. They're actually not that hard to kill if you have the
Crown and some magic axes ... I wonder if anything ill would come of
just parking myself in front of one of the Principle Flames and
continually yelling for a shadowlord :)
As I said, I believe a couple other monsters are worth 25 also, but I
can't remember which ones these are offhand (Sandtraps or Daemons maybe?
But I seem to recall Daemons were actually 19, and I can't remember
Sandtraps' exp off the top of my head ...).

How much for Zorn/Xorn? Is it a coincidence that there are creatures
called that and that the Wisps are Xornites(sp)?

[Tristan Miller]

Greetings.

Post by Amarande

Post by Tristan Miller
Does anyone know how many experience points a Shadowlord is worth? (I
don't mean actually killing them with a shard, of course, but just
defeating them in combat.)

25, like dragons. They're actually not that hard to kill if you have the
Crown and some magic axes ... I wonder if anything ill would come of
just parking myself in front of one of the Principle Flames and
continually yelling for a shadowlord :)

Well, for one thing, you'd lose the sceptre. It's probably best to park
yourself in front of Stonegate rather than in some far-away castle.

BTW, I'm pretty sure you can yell for the Shadowlords in any town or
castle, not just in the three keeps.

Regards,
Tristan

[Claus Dragon]

Post by Amarande

Post by Tristan Miller
Does anyone know how many experience points a Shadowlord is worth? (I
don't mean actually killing them with a shard, of course, but just
defeating them in combat.)

25, like dragons. They're actually not that hard to kill if you have the
Crown and some magic axes ... I wonder if anything ill would come of
just parking myself in front of one of the Principle Flames and
continually yelling for a shadowlord :)

As someone pointed out, the sceptre would get lost.

Post by Amarande
As I said, I believe a couple other monsters are worth 25 also, but I
can't remember which ones these are offhand (Sandtraps or Daemons maybe?

I think sandtraps were even higher than Dragons.

Post by Amarande
But I seem to recall Daemons were actually 19, and I can't remember
Sandtraps' exp off the top of my head ...).

26 or 27 I think?

[Tristan Miller]

Greetings.

Post by Claus Dragon

Post by Amarande
As I said, I believe a couple other monsters are worth 25 also, but I
can't remember which ones these are offhand (Sandtraps or Daemons maybe?

I think sandtraps were even higher than Dragons.

Not to mention much easier to find than dragons. Walking around in the
desert for a few hours will usually result in an encounter or two, but I
don't know of any place outside dungeon rooms where one is highly likely
to encounter a dragon.

Regards,
Tristan

[Claus Dragon]

Post by Tristan Miller
Greetings.

Post by Claus Dragon

Post by Amarande
As I said, I believe a couple other monsters are worth 25 also, but I
can't remember which ones these are offhand (Sandtraps or Daemons maybe?

I think sandtraps were even higher than Dragons.

Not to mention much easier to find than dragons. Walking around in the
desert for a few hours will usually result in an encounter or two, but I
don't know of any place outside dungeon rooms where one is highly likely
to encounter a dragon.

Once the avatar is level 8, there are quite a few random dragon
encounters on the surface world, in my case, that meant hanging around
the path through the serpent spine mountain range and waiting, picking
off ettins and trolls and headlesses and orcs.
--
Claus Dragon <***@mpsahotmail.com>
=(UDIC)=
d++ e++ T--
K1!2!3!456!7!S a26
"My head aches. - Stop thinking about it. -
It hurts even more when I do not think about it."

- Me, lately.

[Tristan Miller]

Greetings.

Post by Claus Dragon

Post by Tristan Miller
Not to mention much easier to find than dragons. Walking around in the
desert for a few hours will usually result in an encounter or two, but I
don't know of any place outside dungeon rooms where one is highly likely
to encounter a dragon.

Once the avatar is level 8, there are quite a few random dragon
encounters on the surface world, in my case, that meant hanging around
the path through the serpent spine mountain range and waiting, picking
off ettins and trolls and headlesses and orcs.

Once the avatar is level 8, there isn't as great a need to find and kill
high-XP monsters like dragons. When you're a low-level avatar who wants
to build up experience points, you're better off scouring the desert for
sandtraps. They're less dangerous than dragons as they can't do nasty
things like possessing player characters, summoning daemons, and throwing
fireballs, but still leave behind lots of treasure.

Regards,
Tristan

[Claus Dragon]

Post by Tristan Miller
Once the avatar is level 8, there isn't as great a need to find and kill
high-XP monsters like dragons. When you're a low-level avatar who wants
to build up experience points, you're better off scouring the desert for
sandtraps. They're less dangerous than dragons as they can't do nasty
things like possessing player characters, summoning daemons, and throwing
fireballs, but still leave behind lots of treasure.

Oh, if you want all stats on 30, you better kill and kill then die,
loose a level, regain it plus a stat point and so on ....
--
Claus Dragon <***@mpsahotmail.com>
=(UDIC)=
d++ e++ T--
K1!2!3!456!7!S a26
"My head aches. - Stop thinking about it. -
It hurts even more when I do not think about it."

- Me, lately.

[lp]

Okay, next question(s). First, I've got all the stuff, and I'm level 8,
but every time Lord B. shows up, he just says "good job!" He's never
said "come get me." Does he actually say that at some point (i.e., do I
just hang around on the edge of the volcano waiting for further
instructions?) or should I keep forging ahead?

Second, here's why I'm wondering. I've gotten through Shame (pretty
wimpy after some of the other dungeons, imho) and I've blinked through
the Underworld to the edge of the Volcano. The Big Dark is there, and
there doesn't seem to be any way through it. I can hike all day, but
when I "view" with a gem, I'm still at the same place. How do I get to
the entrance to Doom? Blinking down doesn't seem to work. Should I use
the sceptre or amulet now?

Fluffy the Confused Dragon

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On 8 Jan 2006 10:22:48 -0800, "lp" <***@digitalpla.net> wrote:

It's been ages since I played plain-vanilla U5 (can't stand all the

Post by lp
Okay, next question(s). First, I've got all the stuff, and I'm level 8,
but every time Lord B. shows up, he just says "good job!" He's never
said "come get me." Does he actually say that at some point (i.e., do I
just hang around on the edge of the volcano waiting for further
instructions?) or should I keep forging ahead?

Nope, he assumes that by the time you've reached level 8 you're smart
and independent enough to know when and where to go. Also, the
programmers could not assume that you had met all the other
requirements (e.g., before finishing all the shrine quests, or talking
to all the important people) prior to reaching level 8. (Also, unlike
Ultima 4, reaching level 8 before entering Doom isn't a requirement...
just a really good idea).

Post by lp
Second, here's why I'm wondering. I've gotten through Shame (pretty
wimpy after some of the other dungeons, imho) and I've blinked through
the Underworld to the edge of the Volcano. The Big Dark is there, and
there doesn't seem to be any way through it. I can hike all day, but
when I "view" with a gem, I'm still at the same place. How do I get to
the entrance to Doom? Blinking down doesn't seem to work. Should I use
the sceptre or amulet now?

You need to wear the amulet to see through the "unending darkness" at
the center of the underworld. If I recall correctly, the bulk of the
darkness (can darkness have bulk?) doesn't vanish; all that changes is
that the few tiles of terrain in the center (where the dungeon
entrance is) becomes visible when the amulet is in use.

Post by lp
Fluffy the Confused Dragon

Meanwhile, I'm trying to have fun with U5:Lazarus. All these damn
bugs; I don't know why the development team didn't do the honest thing
and release it under the "beta" moniker. They have lost an eighth!

[lp]

And I go back, read the transcripts, and "duh!" you're right. U5 has a
really great plot (I love getting arrested . . .) but some of the clues
are *so* random and haphazardly spread around it's easy to forget what
you're doing. And you don't have anyone to ask repeatedly about stuff.

So now I'm in Doom. I'm wandering between levels 4 and 8, but I can't
seem to get to most of Levels 7 and 8. My maps don't show any secret
doors, so there must be hidden ladders in some of the rooms. Any more
helpful hints?

Fluffy the Confused Dragon

[Claus Dragon]

Post by lp
And I go back, read the transcripts, and "duh!" you're right. U5 has a
really great plot (I love getting arrested . . .) but some of the clues
are *so* random and haphazardly spread around it's easy to forget what
you're doing. And you don't have anyone to ask repeatedly about stuff.

One of the eye openers is the farmers meeting in ... which one of the
Britain villages?

They help you onwards a lot, really.

Post by lp
So now I'm in Doom. I'm wandering between levels 4 and 8, but I can't
seem to get to most of Levels 7 and 8. My maps don't show any secret
doors, so there must be hidden ladders in some of the rooms. Any more
helpful hints?

I have yet to beat Ultima V. I am currently lost in the Underworld.
--
Claus Dragon <***@mpsahotmail.com>
=(UDIC)=
d++ e++ T--
K1!2!3!456!7!S a26
"Coffee is a mocker. So, I am going to mock."

- Me, lately.

[Claus Dragon]

Words to the wise, Amarande <***@lunasanguine.com> wrote:

*snip*

Post by Amarande
Having reliable dragons around can be a Good Thing.).

Is that not always the case? :)

[thehawk]

Post by Claus Dragon
*snip*

Post by Amarande
Having reliable dragons around can be a Good Thing.).

Is that not always the case? :)

They are becoming fewer and farther between these days.

-thehawk